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Underground Poker Nyc

Table Of Contents

This month, via the social sharing platform Reddit, a poker dealer and former player started telling his story. However, this was no ordinary story. Over the past fortnight, Julius - not his real name - has started to reveal all about the illegal underground poker games in New York that he played or dealt in over the past fifteen years.

Feedback from the poker community has been overwhelmingly positive, with hundreds of poker players, dealers, and fans rushing to request more chapters. It’s the latest poker binge and we caught up with the creator.

“I was really nervous when I made the first post,” says Julius, clearly shocked by the popularity of his story-telling. ‘I thought I was going to get a ton of crap for it. I’d been browsing the sub-Reddit on poker for a while and looking through the content I couldn’t find anything that was remotely similar.”

'I’d been browsing the subreddit on poker for a while and looking through the content I couldn’t find anything that was remotely similar.'

Julius is, as you might expect, deeply entrenched in the poker world, and currently resides in Vegas; the ‘gambling capital of the world’. Having left New York some time ago, he feels like he has sufficient distance from the subject matter to tell all about working in underground poker rooms. The kind of places the creators of Rounders visited to research the 1998 movie.

“I work for a few different poker rooms in Vegas and the most common thing people ask me is ‘Where are you from?’ Eighty percent of the time, the next question is ‘Did you play poker in New York?’ When I tell that I played and dealt in underground clubs, they want me to tell them the crazy stories or if I saw cheating.”

READ ALSO: The new PokerStars Marketing Code is out!

That’s how the Reddit story started. One night, Julius left his last table and got home fuelled with an impulse to write about when he first visited a poker club when he was a 16-year-old. The next thing he knew, it was three hours later, and he’d created the first chapter.

“I have no formal training in writing and I’m sure that’s evident. But I’ve always enjoyed being articulate in my life. I’ve never done anything even remotely similar to this. I have no idea where this came from.”

The impulse has taken him to eight chapters to date, with plenty more to come. The one-time computer programmer, who was born in California but then moved to the East Coast and New York, loved the perks in New York, and money was the root of it.

“I had a pretty good job at a software company but always dealt poker on the side at nights or weekends, because the money was fantastic, and it was cash.”

Julius became drawn into the poker world more and more. It came to a point where he was making a lot more money in the poker games than he was in his regular job.

“I was happier doing it. I love the game and the industry. It brings me a lot of joy.”

That joy runs right through his story, and despite having to change a few names and clubs (‘Out of respect and not to blow a spot’), Julius may have protected people’s names but he lays the tale out there as honestly as it comes. This is the truth of what dealing to poker players or playing poker underground is really like. Julius believes dealing has made him a better player, but that’s not something he thinks applies to everyone.

'I had a pretty good job at a software company but always dealt poker on the side at nights or weekends, because the money was fantastic, and it was cash.'

“My favorite book is the myth of poker talent by Alex Fitzgerald. The best players in the world put in the most time and work the hardest.”

As a dealer, Julius thinks he and his fellow dealers have the opportunity to pick up poker skills to pay the bills. It all comes down to that hard work element.

“We get to observe tens of thousands of hands on a daily basis eight hours a day. If you study the game and pay attention to the hands you’re dealing, you can learn quite a bit.”

Julius believes most dealers have an advantage - but only if they pay attention to players they deal to and embrace the study sign of the game. But he does... so why isn’t he the best poker player in the game?

“I have horrible bankroll management!” he says with a rueful laugh. “I used to play $5/$10 but the game has become extremely nitty. I’ll play $1/$3 in Vegas because it’s so easy. I get the itch for poker two or three times a week, but I deal every other day; I work seven days a week.”

Despite his obvious love for the game, Julius, now nearing 30 years old, has no desire to turn professional in poker. But he does love mixed games and says that mixing it up helped his No-Limit Hold’em game immensely. Some stories will come up in future chapters that explore that... along with police raids, crazy poker hands, and getting out of New York just as Julius’ luck was running out.

“Because I titled it ‘Inside Underground NY Poker’, I guess it’ll end when I made the move to Las Vegas. In my life, that was a new chapter for me, but I’m only up to 2007 right now, so I’ve got some time to go through before I leave.”

Now Vegas-based, Julius’s adventures have continued above board with a dealer’s license. He loves being in the gambling capital of the world. He made the decision to move to Vegas because he’d had enough of dealing underground illegally. It was only a matter of time before something bad happened in New York. But hey, if you’re reading his adventures, you’ll know that danger is on 5th Street waiting for him.

Read it yet? If not, you can find all the chapters right here. Here at PokerNews, we’re hooked.

Inside Underground NY Poker Reddit Links

Inside Underground NY Poker Excerpt

With Julius' permission, an excerpt of one of his stories. This bit comes from the opening post; Part 1.

“When you rang the bell, they’d ask you who you were, you’d tell them how and who invited you, and in a minute or two you’d be buzzed in through the first steel door. After entering, you’d come to a second steel door with another camera positioned in front, which only opened from the inside.

'you’d come to a second steel door with another camera positioned in front, which only opened from the inside.'

When you finally entered the room, it was gorgeous — clean, large, comfortable, and was equipped with everything you wanted in a club. A full-sized kitchen, multiple clean bathrooms (one even had a shower), a lounge area, a high limit room, waitresses, a bunch of large flat screen TV’s, and a smoking room among other things. The first thing you’d notice was that they had 6 high-quality poker tables paired with executive chairs, not including the one in the high-limit room. This club was spacious.

As you walked in, a valet would ask for your keys and he would go fetch your vehicle and park it in an organized fashion amongst the others. You’d then make your way over to the podium and tell the floor which game you wanted to play — they usually had at least several games going — $1/$3, $2/$5, and $5/$10 NL and higher when it ran, but the much higher games were much more private.

Strapped with $1,000 in cash on me, I request a seat in the $1/$3 game and eventually make my way onto the table. The max buy-in was $500, which I opted for because most stacks at the table were deep. It didn’t really matter anyway — this was my first time playing in an underground poker club and I was nervous as hell.”

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Underground poker is poker played in a venue that is not operating in accordance with the gaming laws of its jurisdiction.

What exactly is 'underground' poker depends on the local laws. In many (but not all) jurisdictions, an unlicensed poker game may still be legal if the game is played in a residential building, the host does not profit from hosting the game, and/or the buy-in fees do not exceed a certain threshold ... Even if the game itself is illegal, in some jurisdictions it is not illegal to just play such a game - in such cases, only the organizers and/or organizers of such games are civilly and/or criminally responsible. The intensity of the harassment of clandestine poker by law enforcement agencies also varies by location. Often, players and hosts of underground poker games are far more concerned with being targeted for armed robbery and other violent criminal acts as opposed to being targeted with legal action.

An underground poker room will usually generate revenue for the profit of the host(s) and/or to pay for operating expenses by collecting rake and/or other house fees while not being a licensed gaming operator. Organized crime groups, such as the American Mafia, often host, provide protection for, or are otherwise involved in high-stakes underground poker games. Underground poker venues can also generate revenue by selling food and beverages (with or without the appropriate licences) and/or by offering side games with a built-in house edge such as blackjack or craps in addition to (or as an alternative to) collecting rake and/or house fees, but this is less common.

Canada[edit]

Under the Criminal Code, any game of poker that is not specifically licensed by the relevant provincial or territorial gaming regulator is covered by either Section 201 or Section 204 of the Code. Section 201(1) makes it an indictable offence for to '(keep) a common gaming house or common betting house' with a maximum penalty of two years' imprisonment, while Section 201(2) makes it a summary offence to be 'found, without lawful excuse, in a common gaming house or common betting house' with a maximum penalty of six months' imprisonment and/or a $5,000 fine.^[1] On the other hand, Section 204(1)(b) provides that 'a private bet between individuals not engaged in any way in the business of betting' is exempt from the provisions of Section 201, and thus is not unlawful.^[2] This has been consistently interpreted to mean that a poker game taking place in a dwelling house is legal in Canada, so long as the host is not taking 'rake' or otherwise directly profiting from hosting the game. Whether a poker game played on a similar 'not for profit' basis somewhere other than a dwelling house (for example, in the warehouse of a small business) also enjoys the exemption of Section 204(1)(b) is disputed.

The laws governing gaming in Canada were written prior to the invention of internet gaming. Notably, Section 201(2) makes no distinction with regards to whether individuals present in an illegal poker room are actually playing poker, while on the other hand there has never been (as of 2013) a prosecution in Canada simply for participating in Internet gaming not licensed in Canada.

The actual penalties imposed for hosting or participating in illegal poker vary widely, and appear to depend greatly on the sensibilities of the presiding judge(s). For example, in 2011 a Winnipeg man (on appeal) won a conditional discharge despite having pleaded guilty to the more serious charge of keeping a common gaming house, meaning he did not get a criminal record.^[3] For the less serious charge of being in a common gaming house, discharges (including absolute discharges) are not uncommon, especially if the accused has no prior criminal record. But this is not always the case, for example in 2012 several Sudbury men were fined for the less serious charge of being in a common gaming house, meaning they did get criminal records. Among those fined in that case was at least one man whom the presiding judge acknowledged had not even been playing.^[4] Therefore, anyone charged even with the less serious offence of being in a common gaming house with respect to a poker game would be well advised to seek counsel prior to entering a plea on the charge.

United Kingdom[edit]

Under the Gambling Act 2005, commercial high-stakes poker is restricted to licensed casinos. However, the Act and associated Regulations do allow for private games in homes and similarly private venues, such as workplaces, without the need for special licences. Poker may also be played in pubs to a certain extent, although the regulations governing such games are complex.

Nevertheless, illegal games are believed to be widespread, especially in Greater London. In a number of cases, club premises certificates have been withdrawn following allegations of illegal poker.^[5]

United States[edit]

In the United States, the legality of poker varies from state to state.

New York[edit]

Under New York state law, it is unlawful to profit from promoting a poker game without the appropriate gaming licences. Simply playing in such a game is not unlawful.

Historical New York clubs[edit]

Underground Poker Nyc Reddit

Some of the longest operating underground clubs have been in New York City. Two of these, the Diamond Club and the Mayfair Club, were famous proving grounds for such now well-known poker players as Howard Lederer, Erik Seidel and Dan Harrington. The New York Police Department, however, closed these clubs in the summer of 2000 during the Rudolph Giuliani administration’s law and order campaign^{[citation needed]}.

Recent years[edit]

Underground poker nevertheless flourished in New York City after the Giuliani busts. In Manhattan, circa 2004, the most well-known clubs included PlayStation near Union Square and New York Players’ Club (NYPC) (sometimes referred to as 72nd Street) on the Upper West Side.

On May 26, 2005 New York City police raided and shut down numerous rooms, including PlayStation and NYPC.^[6][7][8] Clubs that were not targeted then voluntarily closed their doors for some time in spring 2005, but were mostly reopened by that summer.

The reopened clubs began to draw some celebrity clientele, including Alex Rodriguez of the New York Yankees^[9] (who was officially reprimanded for playing in such clubs), and Robert Iler (who was actually present for the October 23, 2005 bust of the club Ace Point at 328 E. 61st Street).^[10] Raids continued regularly throughout 2005, closing clubs such as Rounders on West 25th Street in the Flatiron District of Manhattan,^[11] and, after a series of busts and re-opens, the Brooklyn Players' Club in Park Slope area of Brooklyn.^[12]

Clubs generally continued throughout New York City during 2006 and into2007, but seemed to the clientele to keep their size smaller to avoid theattention that the larger clubs such as NYPC and PlayStation brought.

However, robberies still remained common throughout 2007. This issue reached a crescendo when the City Limit, at 251 Fifth Avenue in Manhattan, was robbed on November 2, 2007. Frank DeSena of Wayne, NJ was killed in an accidental weapons fire during the armed robbery.^[13]

See also[edit]

References[edit]

1. ^Criminal Code, RSC 1985, c C-46, s 201..
2. ^Branch, Legislative Services. 'Consolidated federal laws of canada, Criminal Code'. laws-lois.justice.gc.ca. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
3. ^'Court overturns sentence for illegal poker club'. www.winnipegfreepress.com. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
4. ^nurun.com. 'Men fined for playing illegal poker'. Sudbury Star. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
5. ^'404'. www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
6. ^Hays, Tom (2005-11-27). 'Crackdown Raises the Ante for Poker Clubs in New York'. Boston.com. Retrieved 2007-08-14.
7. ^Associated Press (2005-11-21). 'Authorities crack down on NYC poker clubs'. USA Today. Retrieved 2007-08-14.
8. ^Lee, Jennifer (2005-05-28). '2 Manhattan Poker Parlors Raided by Police'. The New York Times. Retrieved 2008-03-26.
9. ^Associated Press (2005-11-02). 'Yankees tell A-Rod to avoid illegal poker clubs'. Syndicated to ESPN.com. Retrieved 2007-08-14.
10. ^Friedman, Michael (2005-10-23). 'Anthony Soprano Jr. Caught in Poker Raid'. Pokernews.com. Retrieved 2007-08-14.
11. ^Fahim, Kareem (2005-10-16). '13 Arrested In Police Raid On Poker Club'. The New York Times. Retrieved 2008-03-26.
12. ^'Blogger'. jauntyjoker.blogspot.com. Retrieved 6 August 2017.
13. ^Wilson, Michael; Annie Correal (2007-11-04). 'New Jersey Man Is Killed in Midtown Poker Game'. The New York Times. Retrieved 2008-06-29.

External links[edit]